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91
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by Zip on January 21, 2015, 01:13:27 PM »
Tim, there is no "Silvano strategy" It's something they talk about on TV. Alves did NOT win three world titles by keeping his scores instead of taking a reride. Let that sink in...

What they talk about on TV is lots of times just talk. They express opinions. Sometimes poorly formed opinions, sometimes not. They are like the guys who do college gameday or NFL Sunday Pregame. Those football guys know what they are talking about, but they aren't always right. They can have opinions that don't totally make sense. Some of them are biased. Their opinions, stupid or not, are what sell those shows. But what they say on TV isn't the official stance of the NFL or the NCAA. What they are fixated on isn't necessarily what is happening either. This is always the case with any sports analysis.

Back to Alves - he won three world titles by out riding everyone AND placing in the rounds and the average more often. Turning down a RR in a short round usually yields a huge reward, and often taking the RR mathematically isn't worth the risk. In rare cases, it makes more sense to take the RR. Alves does take some of them. He always has. But his real strength lies in his ability to ride the bulls that others can't ride, and to avoid injury. The new points system is obviously rewarding him lots of World Champ points, is it not? Alves is a good hearted guy with a wife and kids, he's humble, softspoken and very likeable. So what if he doesn't speak English well. He's very much the kind of guy that the PBR was created to reward.

Back when the TV guys first started talking about the "Strategy" I added up all the points he had received as a direct result of turning down RR's. In his first two years, they were far less that the points he earned by taking them (he almost never bucks off the RR bull). In any case, the points he got amounted to nothing. A tiny percentage of his total points. So, his strategy isn't winning him world titles directly. It contributes to him staying healthy - and he does not ride nearly as well when he's even a little hurt. If everyone rides with a minor injury, Alves is much more beatable.



92
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by bfan22 on January 20, 2015, 05:03:06 PM »

Really?  If Tanner keeps riding 66% of his bulls he'll be at the top in the BFT standings?  And when he's bumped off the tour because he doesn't draw enough "good" bulls to place,  how long will it take him to gain enough points in the "minor league" as the announcers refer to the Velocity and TPD events?
93
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by sportsfan on January 20, 2015, 01:25:45 PM »
From Guilherme Marchi during a radio interview after the NYC event;

"Whatever the guys (PBR) tell us to change, we change."  "We mad because we do everything and we still win.  That I think hurts (makes mad) the American people." 

"People get hard on Silvano.  Talk about Silvano.  They change the new system of points because of Silvano.  Silvano is still there winning and riding 24 bulls."

Obviously the Brazilians believe that the rule change (points) was changed because of the Brazilians, in particular, Silvano.  You had Ty Murray, Cody Lambert and JW Hart complaining about Silvano's "strategy" and openly rooted against him during the finals.  You had fans at the finals booing Silvano for not taking a re-ride (of course this is after several years of Ty complaining on TV about Silvano and others not taking re-rides).  Silvano is not "popular" because; 1) He's a Brazilian.  2) He's shy and not as fan friendly as say a Marchi (although a number of people complained about Marchi picking bulls that go into his hand and he's not really a champion).  3) His riding style is not "flashy".  4) He doesn't follow the "cowboy way" and take re-rides.  Thereby not endearing him to the PBR hierarchy.  5) He is not fluent in English, therefore, making marketing him and the PBR difficult.

The PBR, in my opinion, made  the point change to make it harder for Silvano to use his strategy to win, or others to use the Silvano strategy to win.  Period.  It wasn't to make it simple for the fans to understand.  This is a "Silvano" rule change.  Plain and simple.  The new point system gives an advantage to guys that get higher scores, but may not ride as many bulls.  In other words "flash" over "substance". 

Silvano may still win.  As Marchi pointed out, the PBR keeps making changes and the Brazilians keep winning.  But, the new system may backfire and hurt other riders, as has happened so far.  When you have a guy that rides 4 out of 5 bulls during a weekend, and all he gets is 15 points for his efforts, and another guy who rides one bull the entire weekend gets 100 points, the point system is flawed!! 

The PBR has decided to use Common Core math when developing this new point system.
94
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by Zip on January 20, 2015, 11:33:01 AM »
Look after OKC and St. Louis and see if it doesn't look different. If Tanner and Nathan keep chugging along, they will have an opportunity to catch up quick. Of course if Alves never bucks off again they will never be world Champs at 66% etc...
95
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by cnay33 on January 20, 2015, 10:08:59 AM »
They have updated it now, still riding 66%(now 10 of 15) and he's up to 45th, tied with Austin Meier(OK he's hustling the TPD and Blue Def), Nathan Schaper(who is not riding horrible at 42 %), and here's the kicker, Renato Nunes(2 of 9 for 22%).  I get that I am beating a dead horse here, and I guess I need to learn to live with the fact that it's going to be screwed up, and there is nothing I can do about it.  However, you have 2 guys riding 60+ % predominantly on the BFTS that are looking at a possible cut with 2 event's left , and that's not right in any form or fashion.  Tanner being 1, and LJ Jenkins sitting down at 59th, and you have 3 guys that have covered 2 bulls so far, that are ahead of/tied with these guys,Stormy Wing, Billy Robinson, and Renato. As a fan I would much rather see a rider with consistency, than a guy who gets a favorable draw, and gets by it.  Billy and Stormy are discussed in what seems to be every cut for the last few years and this system is geared to let those guys continue to chew up a top 35 space, that a more consistent rider should have.
96
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by Zip on January 20, 2015, 04:22:29 AM »
If Tanner rides 66% of his bulls this year, he will be in the top 5 at the end of the season. Period. There are too many opportunities over the course of the year. He's drawn pretty weak at all three events this year so far, but that won't last.
97
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by Savannah on January 19, 2015, 05:15:08 PM »
For the first time in my watching the PBR,  I have to agree the new point system sucks!
It is not fair to so many bull riders that are trying their guts out to ride bulls and to get a score to make it into the Championship Round.

I have nothing against Silvano and he has proven by far how great he is.  He never gets himself in a bad situation, not that he won't but he seems to be able to correct himself when we the fans think he is coming off of the bull.  He must be very, very strong to be able to do that.  So many riders that get in that situation just come off.   He has really no flare about his riding and he is just so calm and cool to watch.  I am not meaning that in a bad way.  Ty used to run him down and now all praise him, he showed them his way is not exactly like the ole cowboy way but it has worked for him.  JB does have flare and does excite his many fans.  He can make a ride look so exciting and it is exciting.  He is not the only one that can do that.  They reviewed one of his rides because they thought he might have not made the 8 seconds.  Found out he rode the bull for 9.9 seconds. 
Last night in the championship round Silvano turned down a crucial re-ride.  Now so far in the past two events, Baltimore and Chicago, he took his re-rides.  Now this is just my thinking.  Guilherme was the last rider and I think he turned down the re-ride because he wanted Guilherme to have a chance on his bull to win the event.  If Silvano had taken the re-ride and had rode his bull, Guilherme might have not been able to make enough points to win the event.  Shane Proctor has been riding all of his bulls and he was in first place when it was time for Guilherme to ride.  Guilherme won by one point.  I met Guilherme when he first started riding and you could not meet a nicer person.  I was torn between wanting Shane to win but I did not care if Guilherme won.  I just loved the stupid question that was ask of him, "do you think you can beat Silvano for the World Title".  Guilherme gave a big smile and said, "of course I can beat him".  There is not a bull rider in the top ten or below that does not think in their head that they cannot win the World.  That is the whole point in riding bulls for all of the riders, to win the World.  They all strive for that.  Now the PBR has made it even harder, thinking they will make the riders take re-rides, mainly Silvano.  As we can see it really has not worked that well because some of the riders are not taking re-rides still.  Every rider has to do it their way whether it is the way the PBR wants them to do it or not.  Whether they are Brazilian, American, Austrian or Canadian they all have their own way but I am afraid the new point system is going to hurt so many and it is totally unfair to all of the riders.
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PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by anna on January 19, 2015, 03:53:16 PM »
cnay33 Ė I noticed the same thing and agree it just didnít seem right.  Just when did the 2015 Velocity and Touring Pro seasons start?  On the PBR website it seems some 2014 scores are counted in 2015.   Also, how does a rider, Bonner Bolton for instance, end up with .5 point in his world standings points?
99
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by cnay33 on January 19, 2015, 12:57:44 PM »
I'm sure most of you have seen this already, but I went and looked after reading sportsfans comments, and it was interesting to say the least.  To add to sportsfans comment, Tanner is TIED for 58th in the world standings.  He boasts a 66% riding percentage(8 of 12), for a mere 25 total points.  The bullrider that is he tied with, has ridden "A" bull.....1 BULL, and not on the BFTS, and has 25 points.  How can anyone spend the time justifying this as "the right way to go"?   I am all for the lower level guys riding their way on tour, it's good for growth and turning over the new leave, etc.  However, it is dissapointing to see guys that have proven to have the skill/gall needed to perform at this level, potentially lose their spot to a guy that "put it together" for a couple of rides or a few lower level events. 
100
PBR Board / Re: The "new" point system sucks!!
« Last post by sportsfan on January 18, 2015, 11:12:00 PM »
Slade, I really respect you for not only having a perspective as a bull rider, but also being a numbers guy as well.  But, when you have to try and defend this lousy new points system by pointing to how it was done 20,30 or 40 years ago, you've already lost.   ;)

You said the 2 main reasons that this new point system came to fruition was;
1) To make the point system simpler and easier for fans to understand
2) As a side benefit it removes any incentive for guys to want their bulls to buck weaker.

Looking at #1:  The point system IS NOT easier and simply.  First off, I don't remember any comments or talk from fans or PBR hierarchy about the previous point system being too complicated.  Heck, most the general fans don't have a clue what goes on anyway, so changing up what is already the norm simply adds confusion.  An example; (true story) Yesterday a lady on the PBR Facebook asked when the PBR was coming to Chicago.  Ah...They were there last week.  And if you truly wanted to make it simple, you would get rid of all the "bonus" points and just go on ride scores.  You ride, you get a score and the one with the highest total scores wins the event and the one with the most ride points at the end of the year, wins the title.  Now that's simple.

Today at the event, after Silvano rode in the short go, Clint and Brandon said that Silvano needed to take a re-ride, score at least 87.25 to "win" the event.  They had to explain that he would possibly win the aggregate, but would not win the event, because he wouldn't have enough "points".  What???????  Yeah, that makes it real simple.

Looking at #2;  Are there still 83, 82, 81, 80 point rides? Yes.  Are there still guys not taking re-rides? Yes.  But, instead of guys getting rewarded for getting an 85, 86 or even an 87 point ride, there have been a number of guys that got ZERO points for making good rides and putting good efforts in, AND NOT TRYING TO MAKE THE BULL WEAKER.  There have been 3 events and at ALL 3, I can point to guys that got ripped off with the new system and it may cost them a spot on the BFTS tour.

Example; In NYC Tanner Brynne rode 4 out of 5 bulls, including the 15/15 and short go.  He had a ride of 87.25 in the short go, but was 6th in the round.  He had an 87.25 ride in the 15/15, but was 6th.  For the entire weekend, riding 4 of 5 bulls, he was awarded a WHOPPING 15 points.  WOW!!  Guys that rode 1 bull the entire weekend made more points. 
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